Equal Money Excuses - Why EMS will apparently not work


kimamour
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:00 pm

Re: Equal Money Excuses - Why EMS will apparently not work

Postby kimamour » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:02 pm

2012 Equal Money Excuses: Equality means we will all be the Same
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-bW5eKrYL0&feature=youtu.be

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MayaH
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:55 pm

Re: Equal Money Excuses - Why EMS will apparently not work

Postby MayaH » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:22 pm

Equal Money System? No… It's not going to work - Day 60
http://mayaprocess.blogspot.com/2012/06 ... ng-to.html

I forgive myself that I've accepted and allowed myself to make a statement like: "The Equal Money System" isn't going to work; it is communism; it's Nazism; it's Socialism" and within that, I've NOT accepted and allowed myself to take a moment, to truly investigate the Equal Money System Policies and additional material and only when I'm absolutely sure that I've encompasses the entire material that is being presented I will allow myself to share my perspective within the starting point that: "I understand and realize that the world must be change; I understand that a solution must be walked and thus, I will bring to the table an effective discussion so that we could all work together towards a word that is best for all.

I forgive myself that I've NOT accepted and allowed myself to realize that within making a statement that : "The Equal Money System isn't going to work" without presenting an alternative solution that is practical, physical and encompasses all the aspects and issues that must be addressed and changed within this world system, I'm part of the problem, I'm part of the extensive accepted and allowed manifested abuse in this world because all I've done was diminishing, limiting and failing those who devoted their life to walk the solution and bring the change to this world and within that, disregarded and unconsidered the majority of this world that lives in atrocious conditions while I could have done something to change their lives and existence as a whole.

I forgive myself that I've accepted and allowed myself to hold onto past attempts of making a change in this world within the definition of its being a failure and thus, when a solution is being presented, I disregard the solution within the statement that it is not going to work and I haven't realized that I'm compromising myself and this world by not giving me the permission to investigate the Equal Money System Policies and additional material so that I could see for myself the common sense that is proposed as the Equal Money System encompasses and address all aspects of LIFE within the principle of what is best for all, practically, physically and effectively.

I forgive myself that I've accepted and allowed the limitation within the statement: "it will never work" wherein, I already stating that I have no power to change myself, no power to change the world and I accept the system as it is even though I know how abusive the system is. and within that, I forgive myself that I've accepted and allowed myself to have refused to see that the only way I will make a statement of: "it's not going to work" without initially test the point, is because I have money that protect me in this world.

I forgive myself that I've NOT accepted and allowed myself to see, realize and understand that the reason/starting point of why I won't stand up for LIFE that is best for all is because I have money to protect me and thus, I don't have to step out of my comfort zone so that others could have the same as I have.

I forgive myself that I've accepted and allowed myself to - within stating: "Equal Money System will never work" to give up on Life, to give up on those who cannot stand up for themselves and to perpetuate the system of abuse, greed and crime because I haven't taken the responsibility to stand for those who cannot, I haven't taken the responsibility to utilize my resources to bring about a change in this world that is best for all but instead, I've tried to digg a whole under their feet to make them fall and accordingly, I won't have to step out of my comfort zone so that others could have what I have.

I commit myself to investigate and research the presented material with regards to the Equal Money System because I see and realize that I see and realize that making a statement against the Equal Money System without bringing/showing/presenting/discussing alternate solutions is a spiteful act against humanity because I do not take the time and effort to consider everything and everyone but my own self interest and within that, accept and allow the world to continue as its current function - a world that is best only for a select few while the majority suffer from awful and atrocious conditions within their position in this world

I commit myself to stand up for those who cannot stand up for themselves and work towards a solution that ensure a dignified LIFE for all. I realize that if I won't stand up and become part of the movement that stand up for LIFE, I am part of the problem and am thus, an abuser through me accepting and allowing abuse and suffering of the majority of this world to continue day in and day out.

I commit myself to walk and apply within every moment of every breath the principle of give that which you would like to receive.

kimamour
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:00 pm

Re: Equal Money Excuses - Why EMS will apparently not work

Postby kimamour » Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:36 pm

Cool Maya,

to expand:

I forgive myself that I have accepted and allowed myself to not realize that the only reason why all my previous attempts and efforts to 'change the world' have failed is because I was only acting from and within the starting point of self-interest wherein I was only interested in changing MY personal experience within and as this reality, as I wasn't feeling satisfied with MY LIFE anymore for whatever reason, and thus when being confronted with the first 'set back', my hopes, dreams and expectations for 'a better world' and 'world change' were chattered and I simply 'let go of the dream' to conform back onto the system, accepting the status quo as 'unchangeable' - as proof/evidence that my desire to change the world in for instance stopping war, corruption, abuse, exploitation, etc, was from the starting point of changing the way it made ME feel, wherein I have never in fact bothered to place myself in the shoes of the ones actually experiencing themselves in those positions -- because, if I were to actually do that, I would know EXACTLY what to do and how to move myself as I would realize, understand and see directly exactly why and what needs to change in this world --- but, because I was never physically in those positions in this world that I had always judged as 'bad' and 'sad' within myself and that made ME feel bad and sad within myself, and because I have always seen and experienced this world and 'the lives of others' from my own perspective, vision and experience on/of the PICTURES that I saw with my eyes, wherein I could always exist as a picture and numb my physical experience through the use of Money, I never realized the absolute urgency of change that is directly related to the PHYSICAL experience of many many beings in this PHYSICAL world

Lord Les
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:53 am

Re: Equal Money Excuses - Why EMS will apparently not work

Postby Lord Les » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:07 am

I'm just learning about your system, but people are selfish because they have learned it through a Capitalist system? That is so stupidly wrong. People are born selfish, that is why they survive the years when they can't care for themselves. It is through the moderating force of society, including Captilistic societies, that we have any reduction in total selfishness.

Your view on being able to modify people to a much greater extent is, in my opinion, one of the most evil ideas from the last two centuries. This idea has been tested in the real world with hundreds of millions of deaths being the result. I'm going to go out on a limb, and assert that you see people as you think they could be, based on yourself. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that what you are saying is true. And to try and do what you are suggesting in your video about people not being corrupted and not working runs through the ideas of the greatest mass murderers of the last two centuries. You are idealogical and uptopianistic. A combination that if implemented, will as it has time and time again, end in terror.

Please please please, steep yourself in past failed societal experiments and see if you can find commonalities between them and with your ideas.

cameroncope
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:44 pm

Re: Equal Money Excuses - Why EMS will apparently not work

Postby cameroncope » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:52 pm

Hi Lord Les,

Do you accept that people are able to change through a change in their environment?

If not, then why are you here?
Are you interested in participating in changing the system to stop the abuse and suffering
in this world, or do you believe that the system that is here will never change?

What is your starting point in joining the forum? based on your posts thus far
all you have done is argue for the status quo.

What we are suggesting with the Equal Money System is that by changing the nature
of the environment one is born into in this world, that over time, we may influence human
nature.

We recognize that when children are born they learn from those who are already here
what behaviors are acceptable and how the world functions. By accepting responsibility for
this point as the ones who are here right now, we may agree to create an environment
that is conducive to new generations of children learning how to consider all of reality within
the context of consequence and that what one accepts and participates in is what shapes the world
for oneself and everyone else.

Ultimately each one will always be responsible for oneself, but given the choice between acting in a way
that is best for oneself or not, most will choose to act in a way that is best for themselves. It is simply the fact
that, as reality is presented from the time one enters this world, one believes that it is in their best interest
to compete and survive at all costs - but obviously this creates a system where no one survives and no one ever wins.

It is therefore our responsibility to show that what is Best for All is in fact what is Best for each one so that each one
may make the decision for themselves to act in their own best interest.

To make the claim that people are born selfish is actually a belief, because you are not able to observe people
outside of the current system - you are only able to do so once they have been influenced by the system that exists.

kimamour
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:00 pm

Re: Equal Money Excuses - Why EMS will apparently not work

Postby kimamour » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:37 pm

Cameron wrote:To make the claim that people are born selfish is actually a belief, because you are not able to observe people
outside of the current system - you are only able to do so once they have been influenced by the system that exists.


Indeed.

Lord Les
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:53 am

Re: Equal Money Excuses - Why EMS will apparently not work

Postby Lord Les » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:11 am

cameroncope wrote:Hi Lord Les,

Do you accept that people are able to change through a change in their environment?

If not, then why are you here?
Are you interested in participating in changing the system to stop the abuse and suffering
in this world, or do you believe that the system that is here will never change?

What is your starting point in joining the forum? based on your posts thus far
all you have done is argue for the status quo.

What we are suggesting with the Equal Money System is that by changing the nature
of the environment one is born into in this world, that over time, we may influence human
nature.

We recognize that when children are born they learn from those who are already here
what behaviors are acceptable and how the world functions. By accepting responsibility for
this point as the ones who are here right now, we may agree to create an environment
that is conducive to new generations of children learning how to consider all of reality within
the context of consequence and that what one accepts and participates in is what shapes the world
for oneself and everyone else.

Ultimately each one will always be responsible for oneself, but given the choice between acting in a way
that is best for oneself or not, most will choose to act in a way that is best for themselves. It is simply the fact
that, as reality is presented from the time one enters this world, one believes that it is in their best interest
to compete and survive at all costs - but obviously this creates a system where no one survives and no one ever wins.

It is therefore our responsibility to show that what is Best for All is in fact what is Best for each one so that each one
may make the decision for themselves to act in their own best interest.

To make the claim that people are born selfish is actually a belief, because you are not able to observe people
outside of the current system - you are only able to do so once they have been influenced by the system that exists.


I accept that people are susceptible to change from their environment. I am interested in changing the world. I don't believe I have ever argued here for the status quo. I am not willing to wait for EMS to be implemented or to wait and see if you are right about EMS changing people. It isn't obvious at all that the innate desire to survive coupled with competition leads inexorably to death and losing. Best for all is not equal to best for each. To make the claim that people are born selfish is a belief, but a belief that can be empircally tested. It has been tested. It has been found to be true. A baby crying for food is acting selfishly.

Marlen
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:12 pm

Re: Equal Money Excuses - Why EMS will apparently not work

Postby Marlen » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:18 pm

Lord Les wrote:I accept that people are susceptible to change from their environment. I am interested in changing the world. I don't believe I have ever argued here for the status quo. I am not willing to wait for EMS to be implemented or to wait and see if you are right about EMS changing people. It isn't obvious at all that the innate desire to survive coupled with competition leads inexorably to death and losing. Best for all is not equal to best for each. To make the claim that people are born selfish is a belief, but a belief that can be empircally tested. It has been tested. It has been found to be true. A baby crying for food is acting selfishly.


It is not that EMS will change the people, it is a process that will have to be worked within and without. Within means self-education to understand the consequences of how we have followed through within self interest and disregarding basic symbiotic functions that we all hold as a collective. We cannot ignore or neglect the fact that we are all subject to the same consequences here.

The 'innate desire to survive' is basic programming that we have accepted and allowed from the moment we are born in a world wherein your basic living rights are not readily given - survival-mode will be eliminated within the Equal Money System through giving equal support to all living beings. Death is a physical certainty, regardless of you being supported or not -we're talking about the ability to have a dignified living here. Best for all is best for each individual, as it is within the understanding of individual well being that the collective well being is created. What is currently 'true' at the level of knowledge is only a condition that we have accepted as 'how things are' and learned how to 'cope with it,' instead of sourcing the root cause of such 'selfishness' and create a practical solution, which is at all times a process of education that has never been implemented before on principles of Equality: giving as you would like to receive, we are an organism that must be equally supported in order to thrive as an actual living-healthy system.

A baby crying for food is our social responsibility, not selfishness - selfishness is pointing out in others the basic mechanisms we all present and veering responsibility to make statements that are not implying you recognize your responsibility and as such, your decision to support a system and a living-mentality that can support others to understand that we are the problem we have always seen as 'outside' of ourselves.

Unless one decides to stop arguing for limitations, everything will seem 'impossible,' because somehow that's a status quo to preserve until one loses such comfort zone and then, action will ensue out of necessity, not a self-directive decision tot support what's best for all, there's quite a difference on that which I don't suggest you have to get to until it is just 'too late.'

Prevention is the basis of what we are proposing here, we don't have to exterminate the Earth to come to an agreement to realize that we can only function in equal-support to live.

Joe Kou
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:45 am

Re: Equal Money Excuses - Why EMS will apparently not work

Postby Joe Kou » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:23 pm

"people are born selfish" is not a 'wrong' or incorrect view or perception of human beings in the world and yes this is something that can be 'tested' and will consistently portray the human as being innately 'selfish' and driven to self-interest and self-preservation

but what is not considered is HOW it came to be this way - we tend to see that this has been our recurring nature and pattern and simply accept that this is how it will always be, because this is how it has always been, and this is where the investigation or any potential for change stops dead in it's tracks - because here we require to do something which is very difficult to do - which is to step beyond what we currently have known, what our history teaches us about who we are, beyond what our current social understanding allows us to consider - but this unknown territory is the only place from which a different foundation can begin to take form.

meaning - the human inclination toward survivalism - toward self-interest - is NOT 'natural' in the sense that it is something permanent and unchangeable - in the context of our development and the relative limitations of our ability to SEE and interact with our world and each other in ways during the times/eras when human civilizations were developing - we had NO actual cross reference point or context or ability (in terms of understanding, technological ability, etc.) to consider anything other than what seems to work - which would be to do what keeps us alive, because if we do not, we die - so what 'works' becomes the only acceptable way to conduct our lives - we teach this and live this understanding because it seems to keep us alive - seems to work - and unless new understanding, new insight, new innovation comes and changes this - we accept nothing else - because anything else is seen as a threat to the ways that work for us, even if it does not work for everyone equally.

this is a simplistic explanation for the point i am making, but to address the core of the statement that humans are innately greedy or selfish - we have to consider that such points of greed and selfishness were reactions and methods we used for survival in a world in which there was no actual, real understanding or mutual support - this is a paradigm from a time when we did not have the ability to communicate across countries, no understanding of our relationship with our ecology, no concept of a world and natural environment that is synergistic and interdependent in it's relationships with all life on earth -

so to consider that if the world we have now is a result/consequence of us fighting and doing whatever it takes to survive and ensure we continue to live on, having no understanding of the possibility or potential of cooperative co-existence instead of constant competition and survivalism - then consider that this very same 'human nature' - this very same tenacity and veracity for survival and living and doing whatever it takes - can be just as easily applied to establishing a system, a cooperative effort - to ensure that we not only survive in this world, but for the first time, REALLY THRIVE - when we understand fully and intimately how our world systems work and how it is that we can only achieve this together in common and equal understanding - 'human nature' then becomes that of support, of care, of actual consideration and integrity - because THAT is what it takes to not only survive in the world we have created and the consequences we are going to have to face, but it is the only way that actual and meaningful LIFE can be achieved - it is the ULTIMATE in self-interest is it not? to ensure that no matter what, the our lives will never again be threatened or put to harm due to self-damaging ideas and beliefs - to ensure that no matter what, the value of our lives can never be diminished or reduced or disregarded for the profit of those who place survival and self-interest above actual life? That is a kind of self-interest that is actually beneficial. That is a kind of 'selfishness' that actually uplifts everyone. If 'human nature' compels us to create the world we live in, then surely the world we live in compels and perpetuates our human nature.

We thus change our own nature, our own understanding, and step beyond our own limitations while doing the same thing in our relationships, our participation, and our influence in the world, and we can see and prove to ourselves that even if we are born greedy, born self-interested, born with no consideration for life - we ultimately are the ones who decide and thus determine what are ACTUAL nature is.

Lord Les
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:53 am

Re: Equal Money Excuses - Why EMS will apparently not work

Postby Lord Les » Thu May 30, 2013 9:49 am

Marlen wrote:
Lord Les wrote:I accept that people are susceptible to change from their environment. I am interested in changing the world. I don't believe I have ever argued here for the status quo. I am not willing to wait for EMS to be implemented or to wait and see if you are right about EMS changing people. It isn't obvious at all that the innate desire to survive coupled with competition leads inexorably to death and losing. Best for all is not equal to best for each. To make the claim that people are born selfish is a belief, but a belief that can be empircally tested. It has been tested. It has been found to be true. A baby crying for food is acting selfishly.


It is not that EMS will change the people, it is a process that will have to be worked within and without. Within means self-education to understand the consequences of how we have followed through within self interest and disregarding basic symbiotic functions that we all hold as a collective. We cannot ignore or neglect the fact that we are all subject to the same consequences here.

The 'innate desire to survive' is basic programming that we have accepted and allowed from the moment we are born in a world wherein your basic living rights are not readily given - survival-mode will be eliminated within the Equal Money System through giving equal support to all living beings. Death is a physical certainty, regardless of you being supported or not -we're talking about the ability to have a dignified living here. Best for all is best for each individual, as it is within the understanding of individual well being that the collective well being is created. What is currently 'true' at the level of knowledge is only a condition that we have accepted as 'how things are' and learned how to 'cope with it,' instead of sourcing the root cause of such 'selfishness' and create a practical solution, which is at all times a process of education that has never been implemented before on principles of Equality: giving as you would like to receive, we are an organism that must be equally supported in order to thrive as an actual living-healthy system.

A baby crying for food is our social responsibility, not selfishness - selfishness is pointing out in others the basic mechanisms we all present and veering responsibility to make statements that are not implying you recognize your responsibility and as such, your decision to support a system and a living-mentality that can support others to understand that we are the problem we have always seen as 'outside' of ourselves.

Unless one decides to stop arguing for limitations, everything will seem 'impossible,' because somehow that's a status quo to preserve until one loses such comfort zone and then, action will ensue out of necessity, not a self-directive decision tot support what's best for all, there's quite a difference on that which I don't suggest you have to get to until it is just 'too late.'

Prevention is the basis of what we are proposing here, we don't have to exterminate the Earth to come to an agreement to realize that we can only function in equal-support to live.


I'll just add that you are conflating the baby's motivations with the parent's responsibilities. Yes, babies have a right to food. They need to be card for, and thus there is a moral obligation to feed any baby. But the baby crying is a purely selfish act. Pure, unadulterated, absolute selfishness. It isn't wrong for that baby to be like that.

Marlen
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:12 pm

Re: Equal Money Excuses - Why EMS will apparently not work

Postby Marlen » Thu May 30, 2013 7:19 pm

I'll just add that you are conflating the baby's motivations with the parent's responsibilities. Yes, babies have a right to food. They need to be card for, and thus there is a moral obligation to feed any baby. But the baby crying is a purely selfish act. Pure, unadulterated, absolute selfishness. It isn't wrong for that baby to be like that.


One would have to understand the mechanics in which the baby adopts the patterns of the parents from the very first weeks of formation as a fetus. This is research that is being conducted as we speak.

If you can invest in the following series, do so since it takes many hours to explain how this operates - the specific form of manipulation that you describe here is explained in the following interview: Perfecting the Human Race - Parenting - Part 19
Solutions: How does one stabilize one’s voice when speaking to children so as to prevent emotional imprinting on the child?
How does this enhance physical stability within children?


The whole series explains what you would consider is normal because it's the only way we have known thus far 'how babies are.'
It is to understand that Equal Money and the proposal here is not only giving money to people to live, it is a profound study at all levels of the human to understand all the patterns that have become the way we have accepted and allowed ourselves to live in without further investigation. Such investigation is being conducted now to eventually change what we have currently deemed as 'normal.'



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