Greetings from Junaid

Junaid
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 3:42 am

Greetings from Junaid

Postby Junaid » Mon May 28, 2012 4:16 am

Hi everyone,
I am Junaid Malik. It's a pleasure joining this blog and having your acquaintance. I have nothing much to say in order to introduce myself, except this that I have been associated with the Banking industry throughout my career and have worked for few global banks like ABN Amro, Standard Charted, some banking software implementation companies like TEMENOS, and have been associated with few economic forums and think tank as research analyst. Being a senior analyst in the field of banking and software implementation, I got the chance to closely monitor the current banking and money business. An observation based on personal experience of more than a decade, that helped me to see the real face of money and banking system, and made to quit the field, since I was finding it too difficult to adjust with a system turning more and more inhuman, dehumanizing those who were associated with it. In fact I have spent last few years doing in-depth research on our socio-economic systems and this also some extensive research on the religion and other social controls around me. I'll be glad to share everything I learned so far.

Marlen
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:12 pm

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby Marlen » Mon May 28, 2012 4:25 am

Very cool, Junaid - glad that we got connected through Facebook.

We recently got a comment on our Goals - which you can vote on or probably already have voted on in the website in the banking goal wherein the person agreed with the goal and commented:

"Perhaps an enhancement to the Shariah Banking system......."


And this was my response:

It does have several similarities to the Shariah Financial System wherein money has no intrinsic value and only stands as a means to distribute the resources – economically called ‘assets’ – in equal ways, which means that money stands as an administrative tool rather than a value in itself as it currently exists in the capitalist system. Though, there will be no investments or trade possible in terms of being able to generate any form of profit – hence there will be no generation of ‘wealth’ as the principle of Equality implies that Life is the only value. This stems from the realization that there can be no profit implied and deriving from giving and receiving life as a right that all human beings must be unconditionally endowed with. From the perspective of the Shariah system stemming from religion, within the Equal Money System there is one single principle that will provide the foundation for all policies and regulations within an Equality Banking System: one cannot make any form of profit from giving/ receiving life – thus there is no private property and no capitalization of goods to generate profits and eventual shares.

The goal is to use money as a means to administrate the resources available and using a mathematical system to ensure that transparency within the allocation of goods takes place through providing the necessary access to the required goods/ services to live – all of this within the consideration that wanting more than what you need is greed, and because of the Equal Money System standing first and foremost as a living-system that values only life in equality, the education of the human being is and will be part of the methods to ensure that the banking system is understood as a mere structure to ensure equal-quality living through managing the distribution of resources/ services for all in equality. This practically means that the banking system will not take any function to gain from investments through capitalizing any form of money, as money will truly only exist as a tool to give and receive in a fair and self honest manner to live in dignity, provided in the way that the goal above specifies.


So, it would be great to discuss this and let me know if our approach does correlate to the Shariah financial system - and if you have any input, please share it. We could even move the entire explanation later on to a new topic if necessary.

Welcome to the forum!

Junaid
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 3:42 am

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby Junaid » Mon May 28, 2012 6:33 am

Thanks Marlen :)

"Perhaps an enhancement to the Shariah Banking system......."
Unfortunately, for some reason I can't see this in the comments section. Anyway, In my opinion this is a generalized statement. Just like comparing the concept with communism or any other form of system being practiced today.

First of all, one need to understand the fact that there are multiple "sharias" being followed in current Islamic world and all of them are based on fundamental concepts taken from different schools of thought (having some differences of opinion). Secondly one needs to understand the concept of Global Banking as well as the relationship of banks with Central Banks (the linkage between central banks and BIS is also very important). Almost all countries practice Fractional-reserve banking, and while Islamic banking prohibits the making of profit from interest on debt, a form of fractional-reserve banking and the concept of money multiplier is still evident in most Islamic countries. I am sure you must be well aware of the process of money creation, where the central banks introduce new money into the economies through expansionary monetary policyand then this money is multiplied by commercial banks through fractional reserve banking. Multiplier means increase in base money to create the broad money supply in an economy.

In practical scenario, this is a very complicated system and requires a very in-depth understanding, so I wont be able to explain everything here, however as per my observation, the money multiplier or fractional reserve system cannot work, without new money being created by commercial banks, in form of debt, and the Islamic banks functioning under the central banks perform the same task. Although there is an Islamic Development Bank (an inter-governmental bank ) working in Middle East, but it's role is very limited due to the influence of global banking cartel, IMF as well as BIS on these Islamic governments.

Also to mention that the concept of capital (al-maal) and accumulation of capital (nama al-mal) makes the current sharia banking system almost identical to modern capitalism, which is one reason why we see no conflict of interest between the Global banking system and Islamic banking system. Practically speaking, the person who owns capital is not equal to the person who does not owns capital, while money as capital is used to earn more money, only the term Interest gets replaced by the term Rent which is not an equality based concept. As an example you search the information provided by various Islamic banks regarding Ijarah a type of car loan or Musharikah as well as Mudarabah used as a type of mortgage facility. The average return on Shariah loan is almost same as conventional banking loan, where the debtor ends up paying almost three times the actual debt in the end, while in case the debtor fails to pay the rent, he ends up losing the asset or collateral (the same way as it happens in conventional banking).

Shariah defines Interest as Riba which according to Shariah terminology, implies any excess compensation without due consideration (consideration does not include time value of money). This is actually a very broad level definition, based on the concepts taken from the the economics of last millennium, without updating it in accordance with the modern concepts of banking and economics. There is a huge contradiction between the theory and practical implementation of sharia's definition of interest, since rent denotes a time based value for money and it is being used almost in all Islamic banks, as means of return on loans. Also the currencies that are based on guarantees by a government to honor the stated value (i.e. fiat currency) or based on other materials such as paper or base metals are allowed to have interest applied to them.

Another factor in Islamic banking is sukkook (a sort of treasury bond) and investment in mutual funds which is not governed by any strict policies or control to restrict investment in stock and commodity market or to discourage income through speculation. Again the twist of words to hide the concept of gambling through Credit Default Swaps and Derivatives which takes place behind the curtain or under the table.

I personally feel that if you want to judge a system, judge it by its fruits or outcome. Those Arab rulers and governments funding major components of sharia banking, are getting richer and richer while their assets are increasing day by day, at the cost of a deteriorating middle class or the lower class. If sharia would have been an effective means of banking, the economies in Islamic countries would have been able to control the income inequalities and would have been able to reduce the gap between haves and have-nots, but this never happened, rather the Islamic countries failed completely to address these issues, while the ruling class kept on piling up their wealth, declaring it as gift of God, declaring poverty and deprivation as God's will, a concept equally accepted by the poor who still believe that their poverty is a test to them from God, and not the result of greed of few who are thriving at the cost of suffering of many.

Marlen
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:12 pm

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby Marlen » Mon May 28, 2012 7:58 am

Junaid wrote:There is a huge contradiction between the theory and practical implementation of sharia's definition of interest, since rent denotes a time based value for money and it is being used almost in all Islamic banks, as means of return on loans.


Thanks, this is exactly what had to be confirmed when it comes to words and using them as a way to disguise the actuality by enhancing their 'position' by saying that they don't endorse Interest - yet they Do have a rent - so, word manipulation to cover up the reality.


Another factor in Islamic banking is sukkook (a sort of treasury bond) and investment in mutual funds which is not governed by any strict policies or control to restrict investment in stock and commodity market or to discourage income through speculation. Again the twist of words to hide the concept of gambling through Credit Default Swaps and Derivatives which takes place behind the curtain or under the table.


It's interesting because many countries are now seeing this Islamic financial system as some sort of resort due to the current affluence in the arab world - however, lol, it's obviously within the same context of money as capital/ which leads to the same system of values that is not sustainable, no matter how many gods can back up such system = it is simply the same model with non-western names.

I personally feel that if you want to judge a system, judge it by its fruits or outcome. Those Arab rulers and governments funding major components of sharia banking, are getting richer and richer while their assets are increasing day by day, at the cost of a deteriorating middle class or the lower class. If sharia would have been an effective means of banking, the economies in Islamic countries would have been able to control the income inequalities and would have been able to reduce the gap between haves and have-nots, but this never happened, rather the Islamic countries failed completely to address these issues, while the ruling class kept on piling up their wealth, declaring it as gift of God, declaring poverty and deprivation as God's will, a concept equally accepted by the poor who still believe that their poverty is a test to them from God, and not the result of greed of few who are thriving at the cost of suffering of many.


I made a video 2012 Real Progress = Political Reform of the System - YouTube about the recently en boga development of Qatar, and how they are very busy creating and presenting this great image of their current developments and investing in obnoxious points like art and culture, while there is obviously an ever increasing gap between this emerging wealth and the have-nots. Nevermind the 'godly deifying of money as energy' which is precisely what's being explained in Sunette's blog about the actual human denigration to exist as greed, spite, blame and justification for such greed as a god-given right.

I agree absolutely.


Very clear explanation here, you could publish that on your blog as there are several sources deifying the Shariah Financial System as 'the new way to go' which is obviously not. Fascinating how it's just another way of calling capitalism with other names to disguise it and pretend that 'there are no interests' while using the same mechanism but with a different name.


I had read a bit about Divine Economics wherein the entire Islamic system was also funded within the religious psychological integrated belief of accumulating 'good karma' to gain some nice place in heaven - that's how all 'good deeds' on Earth were used as a way to maintain the Economy in an affluent mode by linking it to this religious principle. This is the website: http://www.divine-economics.org/index.p ... cs-history - other sites associated with it: http://www.thearda.com/asrec/index.asp and Towards Divine Economics: Some Testable Propositions

Now all of that is simply as part of some research I made in order to see how religion is used as another form to manipulate/ control population by instilling reward-systems - read 'fear' behind it of course - that are not tangible on Earth - but based on the Afterlife, while obviously promoting the accumulation of wealth masking it with 'nice attributes' - such as the point about charity/ altruism that we were 'discussing' on Facebook.

Here are some quotes from that PDF

'Once the individual has accumulated some wealth, Islam guides and motivates him to invest at least part of it to achieve some altruistic intentions."




Increasing wealth for self-satisfaction only, may lead to greed and corruption whereas increasing wealth for both self and others may lead to content. “Those who spend their wealth for increase in selfpurification and have in their minds no favour from anyone for which a reward is expected in return, but only the desire to seed for the countenance of their lord most high—soon will they attain complete satisfaction” (Sura Layl 92; 18–21).


Same reward system as in capitalism where money is god on Earth. Seeking that ultimate positive experience - everything is now explained at the level of our very beingness in Sunette's blog, I highly recommend reading it.


So, as you can see, we promote and stand for a principle that is 'best for all' but in no way must it be seen as a 'reward system' seen within the same 'values' created as a form to manipulate the value of life into greedy deceptive means to always have a way to have more/ earn more. The Equal Money System is about understanding the intrinsic interdependence that we hold as an organism - I absolutely recommend the series 'The Soul of Money' which explains in detail everything that is being taken into consideration for us people presenting/ promoting and standing for/ as the Equal Money System, as it is a broad explanation of economics seen at an existential level, while adding the actual steps to walk at an individual level to first focus on our self equality and oneness to then take on the necessary points within the system to change it from within.

I'm interested in knowing how much you have read of the website/ the Equal Money Book or else - and if you have any direct proposals/ questions and observations according to the goals presented on the website.

If you do publish the explanation as a blog, it would be great to make it as a response to that comment - simply quoting it and the source which is the main EMS website - that way you can also expand that information for people that are believing that the Shariah Financial System is an interesting option to bail out to.

Definitely cool if you can continue sharing more about points that you can see require further understanding as it is in fact essential to understand how the money system works - hence maybe writing about the Equal Money System from your perspective and experience within the banking world would be great and beneficial to understand more about the scams we've lived and created as 'world-system' so far.

Thanks for sharing your introduction and this piece of information here that will be here as a point of reference for more to come.

waseemameer
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 8:41 am

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby waseemameer » Mon May 28, 2012 9:01 am

Hi my name is waseem and I would like to add something about islamic financing, though I am not expert of banking.

People in islam are passionate about islamic finances and banking. I myself enquired about the loan ( with the intent that I might find lower interest rates/rent) but I was amazed by the fact that they charge almost double than what standard bank does and yet people are so crazy about borrowing money from islamic finances. I guess religion is the best way to keep you shut from being exploited and advocate the same craziness at every level.

There are mufti's around sydney who have given fatwa about borrowing money from the banks as they are worried about all the assets will be owned by non-muslims :lol:

Junaid
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 3:42 am

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby Junaid » Mon May 28, 2012 9:34 am

Thanks for a detailed reply Marlen :)

Right now I am going through the details available on this website regarding Equal money. I'll surely give my input once I have done the reading and once I have understood everything properly. As far as sharing my thoughts about Shariah based banking is concerned, I'll try my level best to write something soon, and of course in a bit more detail.

Marlen
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:12 pm

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby Marlen » Mon May 28, 2012 11:13 am

waseemameer wrote:Hi my name is waseem and I would like to add something about islamic financing, though I am not expert of banking.

People in islam are passionate about islamic finances and banking. I myself enquired about the loan ( with the intent that I might find lower interest rates/rent) but I was amazed by the fact that they charge almost double than what standard bank does and yet people are so crazy about borrowing money from islamic finances. I guess religion is the best way to keep you shut from being exploited and advocate the same craziness at every level.

There are mufti's around sydney who have given fatwa about borrowing money from the banks as they are worried about all the assets will be owned by non-muslims :lol:



Hi Waseem, cool you are here participating.

Money and Religion - what a great tie, really - any means are justifiable when it comes to following a 'divine law' - I wrote a blog about 'Divine Economics' but not about Islam's specifically, just the general pattern of understanding money as god, which is part of the exposure that is required in this world as money and god have become a rather accepted synonym without many noticing it.

I suggest you comment on the following article: http://www.grapeshisha.com/living-worki ... nance.html - that way people reading can get an actual perspective on the lies hidden behind naming things differently but being in essence the same as capitalism - or worse.

I guess religion is the best way to keep you shut from being exploited and advocate the same craziness at every level.


Yes from the most well-known perspective in terms of being the very example of accepting any form of hierarchy as something 'divine' and forming within that part of the smoke that blinds us most of the time from realizing how we have perpetuated our own trap. So - we have done it to ourselves, any time that you see yourself looking at something/ someone outside of yourself 'doing this to you: know that victimization is just a nice way to abdicate responsibility wherein you/I / we make ourselves the 'offended ones' while in fact, it is our very participation within this system that only by virtue of having Money you already have a one + vote to this current mess. Hence, best is to focus on how one can expose in a non-attacking manner the reality and truth of what's keeping us bound to a single ludicrous belief system that is benefit No one -yes No One because even those with money are absolutely jaded to realize what they're living out as part of an entire machine of self-abuse, it's all they've known, and unless we all stop participating in the lie: nothing will change.

So, the principle of the Equal Money System call out for Self Responsibility first and foremost - we cannot realize who we are as life if we haven't ever lived as an actual living organism that is governed by physical laws of interdependence and NOT by mental laws of greed, spitefulness, blame and further retaliation toward our own creation in the name of having someone else 'working out the solution' in their heads - not going to happen that way.

Welcome to the forum and I suggest you also take a moment to read the website and see how this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to challenge this entire world set-up to equalize it as life, as who and what we really are.

waseemameer
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 8:41 am

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby waseemameer » Tue May 29, 2012 1:04 am

Thanks Marlen for the reply

I will go through the website and the link and will come back to you with some thoughts.

Waseem

kimamour
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:00 pm

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby kimamour » Tue May 29, 2012 9:14 pm

Hey Junaid and Waseem

welcome to the forum!

Cheers, Kim

Cathy
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:42 am

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby Cathy » Wed May 30, 2012 5:12 am

Hello Junaid, and Waseem - awesome you're both here!

User avatar
MayaH
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:55 pm

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby MayaH » Thu May 31, 2012 3:49 pm

Hey Junaid and Waseem
It is not that every day we see people on the forum who are actually reading our material and placing common sense perspectives so I'm grateful that you are here and taking the time to investigate the Equal Money System.

Junaid, thanks for the 'Shariah Banking system' perspective that you shared here. if it's cool with you, we would like in the near future to incorporate your perspective in the EMS wiki pages.

Lindsay Craver
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 8:10 pm

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby Lindsay Craver » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:16 am

Very cool dialogue here!

Welcome to the forum Junaid and Waseem.

Looking forward to reading more of you both.

Junaid
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 3:42 am

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby Junaid » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:38 pm

Thanks everyone :)
MayaH Please feel free to share these views on any forum you like.

User avatar
Leila
Posts: 486
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:46 pm

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby Leila » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:38 pm

Thanks for sharing your insights on the Shariah system Junaid - I look forward to reading more of your posts

kim kline
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:16 pm

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby kim kline » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:47 pm

Wow, awesome thread- it has been very informative. Thank you Junaid, and welcome. Welcome also Waseem!

Gian
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:44 pm

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby Gian » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:25 pm

cool guys thanks for the discussion here.

Anna
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:26 am

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby Anna » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:18 pm

Hi Junaid and Waseem

Very cool discussion!

Khanson
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:26 am

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby Khanson » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:22 am

This is an awesome sharing thanks.

Marlen
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:12 pm

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby Marlen » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:27 am

Hello Khanson,

Welcome to the forum as well - can you share more about yourself and how you got to the forum?

Enjoy


Cathy
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:42 am

Re: Greetings from Junaid

Postby Cathy » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:18 pm

Welcome to the forum Khanson! Definitely would enjoy hearing more about you when you're able to share.


Return to “Introduce Yourself”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron